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These are mostly for smillaraaq. Somewhere deep in the guts of the Meta Thread from Heck (f-locked, I am afraid), which started out innocently as a notice of a fic posting on my other account and now exceeds 300 posts, she mentioned that she had not read much (or did not recall much) Cherryh, and as CJC is about my favorite SF writer, I felt this needed to be remedied. And when I said so, she said she'd also appreciate recs for DWJ - who is one of my favorite fantasy authors. So, without further ado ... .

Diana Wynne Jones

  • Apropos of some of the themes showing up in "Cupidity", I have to rec Fire and Hemlock, which is probably her most complex book. Curiously enough, rushthatspeaks has just written a marvelous essay on this book, but you should on no account read the essay until you are finished with the book.
  • As smilla is a dog lover, I must rec Dogsbody - and hope that it will not break her heart.
  • For something much lighter, and very cleverly silly, I recommend Archer's Goon.
  • Because smilla is something of a gamer, because it has one of DWJ's best (albeit saddest) endings, and because it is a less-well-known book than it deserves, I recommend The Homeward Bounders.
  • And because it is my favorite aside from those I have recommended, and because it involves a science fiction convention, the Lyke Wake Dirge, centaurs, and Babylon, I recommend Deep Secret

C.J. Cherryh

  • As a standalone, as a cool book about martial arts in a fantasy oriental setting, and as CJC's best fantasy, I recommend The Paladin.
  • As a tough, no-nonsense short series about what it's like to be a cog in the future industrial and military complexes, I recommend Heavy Time and its sequel Hellburner. This will also introduce the Company Wars, the subject of several additional novels.
  • As either a standalone, or as an introduction to her Compact Space books, I recommend The Pride of Chanur, which is a good example of one of CJC's most famous and durable themes, the human being as the alien. It is also pretty much a space opera, and fun. And if you like it, there are 4 more books in the series. (And Pyanfar Chanur is one of my most enduring POV characters! Gods be feathered, I am that long-suffering Hani ship's captain ... !)
  • And because smilla likes dark themes about the evils that people do, I recommend Cyteen, with the caveat that the introductory section can be slghtly sticky going as CJC sets up the political situation from the opposite POV of the Company Wars books. These are the Bad Guys of those books, and the book covers themes of identity, what it is to be human, what makes a person him or herself, and what it is like to be brilliant in a world of lesser minds, against a setting where cloning - ranging from production of custom children for the wealthy to supplying slave labor for a developing world (and including the production of attractive "companions" for those who can afford them) - is common. Unsettling and involving.



( 38 comments — Leave a comment )
Nov. 21st, 2007 07:52 am (UTC)
Just how traumatic are we talking in Dogsbody? Bear in mind that I still get weepy over Beaumont, or the end of Gary Paulsen's Puppies, Dogs and Blue Northers, or Eight Below, and I wept inconsolably for HOURS after the anime version of A Dog of Flanders, in spite of already knowing how the story ended before I watched it!

As for the CJC -- I have read some of the Chanur books and liked them, although don't ask me to swear as to which ones! Space opera and aliens that are convincingly ALIEN, not just funny-looking humans, are pluses. (I think TPOC *might* have been one of that lot, though -- did the paperback cover have a sort of scruffy-bearded-blondish human almost totally surrounded by the press of feline-looking aliens? (Yeah, I don't really remember squat about the plot or the characters, but I still can picture the cover art remarkably clearly...I wasn't kidding when I said my memory is intensely visual.)

Other than that, all I can recall reading for sure are one of the...Morgaine...books? Fantasy, white-haired magical warrior heroine? Gate of Ivrel or something like that? And Downbelow Station which I don't remember anything about other than (1) it was long and (2) it was pretty good; and Rusalka, which I rather enjoyed as the Russian setting was a far cry from the usual vague fantasy cliches. I'm sure there were more but these are the only ones I can even dredge up any sort of specific memory of right now...
Nov. 22nd, 2007 05:30 am (UTC)

-MASSIVE- Spoilers for Dogsbody:

Main POV character has his consciousness transferred into a puppy. Puppies put into a sack to drown, experienced from pup's viewpoint (most - maybe all - are rescued from the river); day-to-day misery of life among incomprehensible humans from a dog's viewpoint: sadness includes being unable to protect abused and exploited young human mistress (not sexual exploitation, though); from girl's viewpoint, her dog has died at end of story, although his consciousness actually goes back where it belongs; his realization that they can no longer be together, because now he is a frighteningly powerful superhuman being and not her dog.

You'll have to decide for yourself, smilla ... . It's a pretty good book.

Yeah, Morgaine - I found those pretty lame. They're early. I like her early SF (Hunter of Worlds for example) better. Downbelow Station was the first of the Company Wars books to be written, although it's not first in terms of internal chronology. It introduces Signy Mallory, jump-carrier captain, the first (IMO) of CJC's truly successful tough older female characters; she shows up as a minor character (rather like Vimes in Monstrous Regiment) in a couple of other books.

And plainly the Chanur books didn't make the same sort of impression on you that they did on me! For me, the scene in Chanur's Homecoming where Py and Jik (the mahe spyship captain - not Goldtooth, but his partner) have a tense heart-to-heart, and she says "I love you like kin, Mahe, but I'd shoot you with my own hand ... " if he posed a threat to her species, and a few moments later, he comes back with "I love you like kin. Same. Got to tell you, you going to bleed. Same you win, same you lose, " because they're going to have to make some hard, hard choices, both of them - argh, the angst, the hard-won cross-species friendship up against preservation of one's own species ... .

Nov. 22nd, 2007 06:50 am (UTC)
Oh, hrm, that sounds a bit like the sort of angst I was playing with for that Nobilis campaign. Perhaps I can manage that...

And really, considering this is a book that I think I read once maybe, oh, 25 years ago, at a point when I was just devouring damn near ANYTHING in the library, it had to have made a fair impression for me to even remember reading and liking it, even if the specific details are lost to me now!
Nov. 23rd, 2007 06:20 pm (UTC)

Yes, it is rather like your Nobilis character - Sirius is definitely a Power.

:-)   Pyanfar and Jik make an interesting friendship. And in fact Py is still very much married and devoted to her husband, Khym Manh, so it really is a virtual-sibling female-male type friendship, of the sort that is all too rare in fiction. And I'm just busting your chops about remembering the book, but it is one of those very, very important books to me.

Nov. 30th, 2007 01:53 am (UTC)
Hee, did you actually wade through that game-archaeology? I do wish I could figure out a way to recycle Rosa for something, she was such an interesting character to play with.

(And if you've ever read Lives of the Monster Dogs, any perceived similarity between that cover photo and the portrait of the previous Power of Dogs hanging in Neuhundstein's great hall is purely intentional.)
(no subject) - chomiji - Dec. 2nd, 2007 05:25 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - smillaraaq - Dec. 2nd, 2007 06:10 am (UTC) - Expand
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Nov. 21st, 2007 05:42 pm (UTC)
Ah, The Homeward Bounders. I still cry over that one. And I still think Jamie/Helen is my didn't-quite-happen DWJ OTP.
Nov. 23rd, 2007 04:21 pm (UTC)

Homeward Bounders is the only really good book that came out of several attempts by various authors in the late 1970s/early 1980s to write something that had the feel of what it would be like to be a real person trapped in a roleplaying game (Quag Keep, anyone? ... >shudder< ).

I really appreciate that DWJ didn't attempt to push the boy/girl aspect of things in that - which she could have, because Jamie and Helen and Joris and Adam all seem to be about 13 years old. But yes, I think that Helen and Jamie could have grown into a real relationship, because there is a certain amount of spark there and a lot of mutual respect, and Jamie was even showing signs of being able to understand her early traumas and to give her space when she needed it, without getting all mushy about it.

(And redbrunja, if you're reading this, and can find and read this book, I'd be interested in your take on this relationship in reference to the buddies vs. lovers conversations we've been having. Jamie calls Helen his "friendly neighborhood enemy" ... . Of course, they are both quite young.)

Nov. 23rd, 2007 06:03 pm (UTC)

I *loved* Quag Keep! Although in my defense, I had no real-world gaming experience, and I was only nine years old at the time and much less critical a reader...

*continues dissolving into giggles*
Nov. 27th, 2007 02:45 am (UTC)

Heh ... I liked Andre Norton quite a lot as a kid, but I was already a moderately sophisticated gamer when it came out ... a disaster was the only way I could describe it!

Nov. 27th, 2007 05:36 pm (UTC)
The library I haunted as a child had a huge range of the old Nortons, so I absolutely devoured those -- her stuff, the early pulpy Moorcock fantasies and time-travel SF, and McCaffrey were pretty much my first genre reading (not counting Tolkien, because I came to that so young I really had no conception of that being a particular type of book that I could seek out...) I never could manage to get into any of the classic Heinlein juveniles, but I snapped up every Norton and the earlier pulpy Moorcock fantasies I could get my hands on.
Nov. 27th, 2007 08:55 pm (UTC)

LotR was my first grown-up fantasy, but The Witches of Karres was my first grown-up SF. I may have read Norton after that, but I'm not sure. Oddly enough, the only Nortons I can remember very much are Catseye and The Stars Are Ours, even though I think I read everything she ever wrote through 1970 or so.

(I also remember learning (partway through college) that she was very squicked out by the brother incest in Elizabeth Lynn's The Dancers of Arun ... . Poor woman - luckily she never discovered manga!)

(no subject) - smillaraaq - Nov. 28th, 2007 03:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - smillaraaq - Nov. 28th, 2007 05:09 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - chomiji - Nov. 28th, 2007 11:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
Nov. 23rd, 2007 08:29 pm (UTC)
Well, I'm still young and overly romantic so I kind of wish she had explored that aspect of the whole thing. I feel like the bits about Jamie understanding her issues and knowing when to give her space showed the depth of the relationship, and I'm always a sucker for the traveling-companions-turned-lovers thing. Plus, the dynamic between Jamie and Joris definitely suggested some jealousy-related tension over Helen.
Nov. 27th, 2007 02:49 am (UTC)


I think 13 or 14 is young for much boy/girl stuff! You're a chunk older than that - at this stage, those few years make a big difference, especially for the boys. I don't think that Joris was thinking about Helen much except as a member of the upper class, from his viewpoint - you remember he kept saying that Helen looked like a Khan.

I'm also a sucker for friends or companions becoming lovers, whether straight or not. But although Jamie was definitely forming some early thoughts along those lines, I can't really see it in Joris. But they say the parents are always the last to know!

Nov. 27th, 2007 02:52 am (UTC)
Hey, I was fourteen not too long ago! DWJ also tends to write her characters as being more emotionally mature than their age, don't you think. Besides, Jamie is what, hundreds of years old by now?

But yeah...Joris...I dunno about him. He's such an interesting character! I mean, it was also pretty clear that he was in love with that Khan girl, and I kind of saw his insistence that Helen looked like a Khan an indication that he was a bit attracted to her. Gosh, I need to read it again.
Nov. 27th, 2007 07:47 pm (UTC)

Hmmm, yeah, but Jamie's heart hasn't aged (to get mushy and metaphysical on you) - he's still a 13-year-old boy, more or less, in matters of the heart. I mean, he's got more perspective on how much it should matter, and on being compassionate and non-judgmental, but the circumstances under which he's likely to find himself smitten are probably the same.

Yes, Joris had a crush on Elsie Khan, it seemed. At least, he got all pink when Konstam brought her up. And there, of course, is the real target of Joris' devotion: he hasn't got much room for an emotional attachment to a crush when he's so totally obsessed with his teacher/master! But I don't think he was transferring his crush to Helen. (Good memory, you! I had forgotten all about Elsie - presumably named for her impressive grandmother Elsa, the leader of the Khans.)

(no subject) - bad_mushroom - Nov. 27th, 2007 08:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
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( 38 comments — Leave a comment )


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