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A Couple of Links About #yesGayYA

Followups to the links I posted last week:

A direct one: What's going on with #yesGayYA
" ... before I can get to a number of other things, we have a publishing kerfuffle to discuss. Yes, another one. It's gotten pretty bad ... The long version: (Pack a lunch, you'll need it) ..."
[Excellent summary, with plenty of links , of the whole situation.]

A related one: Of Bigotry, Children and Culture:
"At four different points [in the show], the comedian asked for child volunteers to come up onto the stage and have themselves drawn ... The fourth and final time her hand went ignored, the girl in front of us let out a frustrated sigh and exclaimed, ‘He’s only choosing boys ... !’"
[About children, and the lessons that we may not know we're teaching]

This entry is also posted at Dreamwidth. Comment at either location, as you prefer.

Comments

( 13 comments — Leave a comment )
rachel_reicheru
Sep. 17th, 2011 09:04 pm (UTC)
I haven't read the first link yet, but the second one i was just having a read over now.

It was interesting to read this bit (well the whole thing was interesting but- "No sooner is their gender known than children are defined by it: pink for girls, blue for boys, baby dolls for girls, action heroes for boys, kitchens for girls, tools for boys, ponies for girls, cars for boys, and God help any child who wants to play with both." Mainly because i distinctively remember as a child i hated barbies! I did i despised them i thought they were shit! I loooved my power ranger dolls! My brother got the girl one and i had the boy one and i had another of the hottie green one (must've had a thing for guys in green lol) and my brother was the one that sorta played with girlish dolls and my sister.

But on the point - got help those that wanna play with both, it didnt turn out so bad. :P my power ranger didn't have a play house for power rangers so my mum brought me the portable barbie play house for my awesome manly built up power rangers XD

For my brothers bartmizva (i know that isn't spelt correctly sorry) my mother hired a cartoonist draw pictures of anyone that wanted to and be it as it may, most of the ones that did like their pics were the guys. They thought it was funny "oh look i have a giant head and shit hanging out my nose." (sorta reactions.) my sister got one done and just scowled at the guy afterwards, and i was off hiding in the corner so i didnt get one hahaha. So i think maybe the comedian did make a conscious decision to not pick girls, and maybe was unaware of the repercussions he had. He was likely only thinking about NOT upsetting parents or something like that.

my 10cents anyway.
chomiji
Sep. 17th, 2011 09:17 pm (UTC)

But that's exactly the point that the blogger was making - the comedian probably didn't know that's what he was doing. Yet he was teaching the little girl that boys were more likely to get things by asking than girls are (among other lessons). People don't necessarily think about the influence that their choices in toys and so on for the kids have on the kids, either.

I used to use my Barbie dolls like action figures. I wanted more male ones, but no one ever thought to buy me a GI Joe. I bought my daughter one when she wanted one - besides, he had cool things like a rubber raft that was the right size for the Barbies too.

My father wasn't thinking about treating us as he would sons (we didn't have any brothers), but he actually manned up pretty well when it became clear that's what I wanted (not about sports, though - I hated sports). When I was about 8, he got a new type of saw for his home workshop and he asked me what toy he should make for me. I said I wanted a saw. He though I said "sword" (a consequence of his own slight New York accent). When I saw that what he was cutting out wasn't the right shape, I said "No! A saw - like yours!" So he cut a toy one out of wood ... and the next weekend, we went to the hardware store, and I got my very own little keyhole saw and a real tack hammer, and he gave me nails and scraps of wood, and later a low-voltage transformer and some wire and tiny lights, and let me wire my dollhouse with electric lights. But what about girls who didn't have that kind of a father?

rachel_reicheru
Sep. 17th, 2011 10:00 pm (UTC)
That's true, but for me it was my mum who figured out pretty damn quickly i didnt like girly things and such. She went out once and came back with a present for all of us. (she knows me the best btw)

she got my little sister a lion king soft toy (little sister 4-5ish was thrilled) got my brother this cap (brother was a bit yay present meh cap.) she got me my very first comic Asterix (& Obelix is some countries.) she thought that i might like it... little did she knew he had at the very moment created a comic book munching monster :P (i thank her for beginning my obsession with manga too as she also brought me my first of those hahaha)

I think for most part, boy/girl kids, they usually know what they want, and even if they don't get it from their parents right away or their parents don't understand those kids will always know what they want and they will find ways of getting it. But yeah.. i would hope either father or mother especially in this day and age would notice if their kid liked action figures better than barbie... that said :( they dont make action figures like they used too :(
lauand
Sep. 18th, 2011 03:23 pm (UTC)
I had a dozen girl dolls (not all of them were Barbies) and a male doll. That meant that, in my stories, it was always the man in the role of a damel in distress and the girls who were placed as the villain, the hero, the sidekick and the guards. It was just a matter of demographics. It was okay by me, because I felt identified with the hero anyway. I would have liked more male dolls, though.

I was lucky enough to have a big brother. I could borrow his cars when I got tired of the dolls.

Trying to explain/show a child that a toy/garment/book/whatever is not for them because of their gender is incredibly wrong, because children tend to believe their parents.

Those were interesting links. Thanks for sharing.
chomiji
Sep. 17th, 2011 09:19 pm (UTC)

"Bar Mitzvah," usually. (Eee! Another Jewish Saiyuki fan!)

rachel_reicheru
Sep. 17th, 2011 10:05 pm (UTC)
Kiiindaaa... ^^; Um well yes by Jewish law since both my folks are Jewish i am considered Jewish. I personally believe you are not born into religion is it something that you choose to follow (and i have nothing against those that do follow religion, granted they arent hurting others by it.) But due to bad experiences with my really religious side of my fathers family i have been completely put off it. So i don't generally consider myself Jewish as i am rather stuck between being Agnostic, and being an Atheist and can't decide which I am (spose it depends on my mood.) :P But i will always be a Saiyuki fan ♥
chomiji
Sep. 17th, 2011 10:35 pm (UTC)

Awww, c'mon, leave me my illusions!

;-)

I'm Jewish both by birth and preference. I post about it from time to time ... the High Holy Days are coming up, so you'll probably see something about it in the next couple of weeks.

Whether I'm certain of God's existence is another thing entirely. (And my husband is not Jewish.)

rachel_reicheru
Sep. 17th, 2011 11:31 pm (UTC)
Ok, well you can know my secrete then ;)

I'm going Rosh A Shana (sorry for spelling again.) with my mother, and although she is jewish she is not religious so we do it as a family gathering thing and her stuff is very low key. I suspect we'll say 1-2 prays and then rubber dub dub thanks for the grub :P or something along the lines of eating rather than praying.

the people i live with (best friend is atheist but;) are also jewish, and we do shabbat every friday which again 3 prays and then a shiiiit tone of food. :P

Luckily my father is going to Israel to visit my brother in a day or so and won't be here which means i dont have to see his side of the family and worry about their 1-3hrs of praying prior to the meal =____= my dad himself is like my mum and very normal about it. But his family is very critical of the fact that im not one of them, didn't go to a jewish school (all my siblings and cousins did.) and that all my boysfriends have been non jewish, all my friends are either atheist jews or non jewish, they hate the fact my best friend (even thou he is technically jewish) is gay :P

once my grandfather told me off for having a friend that was swiss... (this is why i dont like them.) I haven't due to respect for my father, but have always wanted to say to them. "If you want to be treated with respect, treat others how you want to be treated regardless of race or creed." Isn't that one of the commandments anyway?
lauand
Sep. 18th, 2011 03:28 pm (UTC)
Maybe it's a situation that feeds itself? Maybe girls get more upset because they're taught that girls have to be pretty, girls are pretty, girls' appearance is important, girls should look charming, girls should act like a lasy, girls are pretty... so they get angry when someone portrait them as not-pretty? Maybe it's the kind of praise they've been taught to expect, and they get upset when they don't receive it.

I remember being moderately vain when I was a child, too. But I wonder if it was in my nature or it was ingrained in me.
rachel_reicheru
Sep. 18th, 2011 10:08 pm (UTC)
Hrm maybe you're right.

My sister is really girly and very focused on her looks and how others perceive her, but for me i dont give a shit and we were raised the same way by the same mother. I think there is an amount of ingrain personality even at birth and I'd say influences around the individual help shape them further.
lauand
Sep. 20th, 2011 10:29 pm (UTC)
Yes, that makes sense. Not everything is genetics and not everything is environment, a mix of both might be the key.
lady_ganesh
Sep. 19th, 2011 01:38 am (UTC)
Yeah, that's what I was wondering too.
lady_ganesh
Sep. 19th, 2011 01:38 am (UTC)
That blog post is fantastic.
( 13 comments — Leave a comment )

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