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Pick on Someone My Own Age ... ?

I was reading through all the wonderful (and fearful ...) things the folks on love_deeper had said about the various chapters of SDK as sanada had translated them last year, and I was once again seized with paralyzing shyness about trying to converse with them. If and when they figure out how old I actually am, will they react as though Mom has had the nerve to show up and try hanging out? >sigh<

Maybe they are such citizens of the WWW that they won't give a flying fart ... that would be nice. Still, I worry ... . It was the same thing on the Gaiman Board, but they are a slightly more aged crowd. There are several people more or less my age on that one. On the other hand, Shejidan (which just moved to a new ISP, startling me a bit), was always a thoroughgoing multigenerational group. What's the difference, I wonder? I guess C.J. Cherryh, as moderately hard SF, is always geekness, but Gaiman and manga are more trendy and attract a younger crowd? But at Balticon last year, the audiences for Gaiman's talks covered a satisfyingly large range of ages ... .

I've pursued links to people's individual LiveJournals from the Interests I filled out here, to see what other things the people that like things that I like, like ... >eyes cross< I've found several people who read piles of the same SF&F that I read, and they also read some manga. But most don't seem to belong to communities here. Inherent introversion? Assumption that the communities are for the kids? The various SF&F e-mailing lists that still exist seem to trend older, too. The Diana Wynne Jones mailing list, which I lurk faithfully, has quite an august subscribership. But it would be easier to chat with them if they had a board, or even a community!

Why can't all these lovely people get together somewhere where I can talk to all of them?

Comments

( 11 comments — Leave a comment )
sanada
Jan. 30th, 2007 06:52 am (UTC)
Hey, I'm always thrilled when people over 25 are interested in manga... it's a fandom dominated by young people (in the US, at least), so I'm usually an old fart on most manga forums. But the fans are often older than you think! Last Katsucon's SDK meetup was a really mixed group - I think the age range was from mid-30s down to elementary school (the Sasuke cosplayer brought her son), with an average probably in the late 20s.

LJ communities die so easily and so often that I'll rarely join a comm that isn't active or at least established - maybe that's it?
chomiji
Jan. 30th, 2007 08:21 pm (UTC)

You're right about the actual ages, I'm sure, and also about the evanescence of most of the Communities. I'm betting it's also the young and brash who are posting the most, and that also skews what I'm seeing.

I think what got me going yesterday was the level of cheery smut that was going on - I was simultaneously amused, horrified (only because I was browsing at work ... bad Cho! No Thin Mints for you!), and envious that everyone felt free enough to joke around on that level. There's been a complete attitude shift in what female persons are comfortable in doing in a public (or at least semi-public) setting!

And I thought I was fairly un-shockable ... O.o ... what made it worse was I kept wanting to laugh. Loudly.

- Cho

sanada
Jan. 30th, 2007 11:14 pm (UTC)
Yeah, there are always a lot of newbie introduction posts in comms... and most people keep track of communities using their friends page - depending on how many friends they have, the friends page might move so quickly that they miss posts until they go back and specifically check the community.

Hahaha, yeah, lots of dirty minds~~ A lot of people my age and younger feel more comfortable online than they do in real life~ lol, now I wanna know what it takes to shock you! What post was it?
chomiji
Jan. 31st, 2007 03:44 pm (UTC)

Well, let's make sure we get the same mileage from the word "shock" - intense disapproval is not necessarily involved here, but surprise and a certain amount of consternation were there ... .

I think it was "ass babies" that did me in ... I have a very visual imagination, and having experienced actual childbirth, the physical grotesquerie was ... . Oh well. Just pass me the mind bleach now, thanks! :-o And let's don't say things like that about our Yukimura-san! (Or any of those other very, very interesting guys ....)

On a more serious note, the forceful debates on who was top and who was bottom had me thinking "Gee, has this crew never heard of the descriptor 'versatile'? Always popular, and can add a lot more interest to even fictional relationships .... "

So, now you know ... hope you aren't too disappointed at my stodginess!

- Cho

sanada
Feb. 1st, 2007 08:01 am (UTC)
*laugh* "Ass babies?" Oh, but that's a common internet term! Although if you really think about it, it is pretty disgusting...

Oh no, nobody seems like like the idea of guys who can go both ways... the Japanese fans are very stodgy about that too. They have the "height rule" - whoever is taller invariably goes on top. English fans aren't *quite* that bad, but the fandom is still domninated by the "seme" and "uke" sterotypes. ... even if they have to totally remove the character's original personality to make them fit the weepy uke or badass seme roles. I have a lot of SDK yaoi doujinshi, and some are just laughably bad. Hotaru/Shinrei is a really popular Japanese pairing but Shinrei usually resembles a preteen girl! He clings to Hotaru cries through all of the sex scenes, which is a turn-off. Shinrei isn't much of a man, but he's better than that... It's even worse if you read actual yaoi manga... but who reads that for story? It's just smut... and usually bad smut at that. My reactions to yaoi manga usually range from "ouch, that looks unpleasant" to "I think that technically counts as rape" to "why is there an octopus involved?" to "OH MY GOD THAT'S NOT EVEN PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE." ^^;; So even I can be shocked...
chomiji
Feb. 1st, 2007 02:27 pm (UTC)
(Heh, LiveJournal newbie stupidity strikes again, I posted a new comment to my entry instead of a reply to you, so you'll have to come visit my journal to see what I said ... - Cho)
chomiji
Feb. 1st, 2007 02:25 pm (UTC)

>> but that's a common internet term <<

Well, well ... ya learn something new every day ... although I also feel the need to quote the button I have pinned up over my desk: "OK, that was a little TOO educational!"

I think it's just another illustration of the differences in the type of online experiences available now and some 10 years ago. Remember that I had been roleplaying gay male characters on CI$ RPGAMES and www.dreamlyrics.com for several years before any of the online info on these topics became available ... although I'm sure that there were mailing lists for those in the know back then, I had never heard the terms slash or yaoi. Instead, we were gaming in a community that included several "out" gay members, both male and female. So instead of worrying about the "height rule" (and now I remember reading about that, maybe 5 years ago), I was mainly worried about how my characters might appear to an audience that lived what I was roleplaying ... .

Oh, I am so-o-o serious and earnest, aren't I? ;-) No wonder I sympathize with Shinrei ... .

Anyway, this is just more fuel for my theory about why bright women like those types of scenarios ... anytime someone ships HotaruxShinrei with a weepy, helpless, passive Shinrei, she's just saying that she finds Hotaru really, really hot (yes, old, lame, sad pun ...) and would be glad for him to do whatever he damn pleases to her ... of course, sweet, homicidal little flake that he is, I have my doubts that it would actually be what she had in mind, regardless ... (quoth Hotaru, "Whatever ... .")

;-)

- Cho

sanada
Feb. 1st, 2007 05:46 pm (UTC)
It's a learning experience!!

*laugh* I don't think most women care what gay men think when they write yaoi and slash. Japanese gay men usually don't read yaoi anyway - they have their own publications. Even for a series like SDK that hs large numbers of male and female fans, men and women are unlikely to interact within the fandom. I think there's a growing push now to make yaoi characters act more like men and to have more flexibility in the relationships, but it's still totally dominated by the Same Old Crap.

Oh, I'm sure the writers make the "uke" into an avatar of themselves, but why don't they make the sex scenes pleasant then!? It's all blood, sweat and tears. If they actually bothered to write Hotaru in character, I doubt there would be much seduction at all... you can loiok right into Hotaru's eyes and tell that there is absolutely nothing going on in his head.
chomiji
Feb. 1st, 2007 07:11 pm (UTC)

Like the Shinrei icon! Maybe I'll have to make a Shinrei ... Yuan here need some work, I think - the concept was better than my execution.

Re the whole violent fantasy sex thing ... I have a feeling that some of these folks either haven't had much experience (if any at all) and are still half worried/half guilty about the whole idea, and the rest have found it wasn't as great as they had imagined and figure that maybe the problem is that they simply weren't properly overwhelmed or something.

It should be interesting to see what the fluff-a-thon produces ... maybe someone will actually write a nice little afternoon delight scenario. I was ravelling the thread of what happens after 308, after Yuya finished her crying jag and while Kyo's still feeling relieved after being worried ... where's your "real man" stuff now, Kyo, with the actual Yuya - still a virgin, one assumes - in your arms, and she's been waiting so patiently and faithfully? Given the way his face looked, I have a feeling that we're not going to have quite what he seemed to be threatening four years ago ... then again, IMO, "real men" aren't afraid of being gentle.

Someone (maybe you?) was pushing YuanxAkari ... that has potential, don't you think? It's funny - I think I'm thinking of Akari as "yours" - I haven't been playing with Akari ideas, and it's normally a type of character I'd like.

(On another front, I'm thinking maybe I overwhelmed people with verbiage on the Akira question ... I gotta stop writing like an English major ... )

sanada
Feb. 2nd, 2007 03:52 pm (UTC)
Aww, I like the Yun-Yun icon!

*laugh* Yeah, I think these girls are just copying what they see in other doujinshi. Most of the older artists with established publishing circles concentrate more on a good plot or at least some humor, and the porn is much better if there is any at all. It's just much harder to find those doujinshi!

Aww, exactly, Kyo is enough of a real man that I have a soft spot for the Kyo and Yuya pairing, even though I usually dislike the hero/heroine pairing in shounen manga. And after all that waiting, Yuya DESERVES a few days of hanging around the house with Kyo, being all mushy and smutty. ^^;

Oh yes, I like Yuan/Akari! And I think Anna and Akari would get along really well as sisters-in-law, and they could torment poor Hotaru! And I think Yuan would be one of the few people that Akari could open up to regarding Hishigi. And they *are* hanging around together in the last chapter~~ But feel free to write for Akari if you want! *laugh* The whole fandom seems to think Akari is mine... people even call me "Nee-chan."

(^^;; It's hard to curb those inclinations, I know. But I look forward to seeing what artillie will think, and once sylvacoer gets out of Narita airport, I'm sure she'll be interested in some Akira speculation.
chomiji
Feb. 3rd, 2007 04:56 am (UTC)

I'm tempted to say that the ladies in question should do a little actual research - the "Savage Love" column comes to mind - but as you mentioned, actual gay love accuracy isn't likely to be high on the list of priorities.

Heh, my little thought experiment included Kyo and Yuya showing up at the tea house/inn where Yukimura and Bon seem to like to hang out in that same issue. As the evening and celebration wear on, Yukimura drifts off (perhaps with Sasuke in tow) and arranges for his idea of a "honeymoon suite" for them ... and then he comes back and cuts off Kyo's liquor intake and sends him off, making sure he collects Yuya on the way ... it's a bittersweet thing for Yukimura to be doing from my viewpoint ... .

Hmm, pretty soon we're going to have a complete Mibu soap opera running here! Maybe that's why Hotaru took to piracy on the open seas ... .

I'm so glad you liked my Yun-Yun! I found some instrux online about how to color the B&W scanned comics properly in Photoshop, so maybe I'll try with some of those next. It's rather embarrassing - when I told the Young Lady about that, she already knew that technique - she'd used it for a project earlier this year (she's been learning Photoshop in her special program's photography class).

( 11 comments — Leave a comment )

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