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I Need to Avoid Facebook Most Nights

Or set a timer or something.

It's a much more pernicious timewaster than LJ, and it's not as socially satisfying as chat.

I have an idea for this week's saiyuki_time challenge, I have things I could be blogging (my next book for the 50books_poc reading challenge, Black Lagoon, SDK 32, Reload 9), I have music links from smillaraaq that I could be chatting about (plus she's reading a book that I'd love to discuss some more).

And I have not done one iota of any of it!!!

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( 19 comments — Leave a comment )
smillaraaq
Feb. 11th, 2009 03:12 am (UTC)
I finished it last night -- and there was a page missing right at the end, waaaaaaah! Please tell me you have a spare copy and can tell me just how my girl Noe managed to talk Humility into unofficially joining the marriage! :)
chomiji
Feb. 11th, 2009 06:09 pm (UTC)

I have a hardback copy somewhere! I will try to get on chat tonight if I can dig it up!

Shucks, I didn't realize that the pb copy was incomplete - I'm so sorry!

smillaraaq
Feb. 11th, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC)
Awww, it's OK -- it's the next-to-last page of actual story, so it's easy enough to tell what was going on in the missing section from context: I'm just sad because it was dialogue between two of my favorite characters so I'd love to see how they got there! If it had been folks I was more neutral about, I'd have been fine with just shrugging it off as "X persuades Y to do Z, somehow". :)

Here's where stuff breaks:

Humility did not believe such ways existed. How could se-Tufi clones be differentiated by chemistry?

Noe took Humility's arm and showed her a small scratch. "I brushed against you when you were taking care of the children. Remember? Without your permission I infected you with the anti-toxin of Fosal's Disease out of curiosity. The Kaiel did not trust the Liethe anti-toxin and we brought the disease home from Soebo and made our own. I brought it home. Ours has fewer side effects than...

[missing page]

...Honey towel her. "Now it's your turn. Get in the tub and I'll scrub you!"

"No. I'll do it myself. You're a priest and I'm a priest's servant."

"Don't be ridiculous! I scrub Teenae all the time. Here: right now we'll do the ritual of making you an honorary wife and get it over with. Quick. Desert style." Abruptly Noe made the sign of loyalty.


Hopefully that's enough to make it easy for you to place the mising bit in your copy, since I'm sure the page numbering would be off from PB to hardcover!
meganbmoore
Feb. 11th, 2009 03:45 am (UTC)
Pft. How could facebook possibly be as rewarding as chatting with Smilla and I. And, you know, other people you chat with that I don't know about.

*tries to remember if SDK 32 is one she has, or one that just came out and is waiting for another Tokyopop sale at Rightstuf*
chomiji
Feb. 11th, 2009 06:10 pm (UTC)

Sometimes avierra joins in the chat as well!

SDK 32 is Akira's big fight with That Person.

redbrunja
Feb. 11th, 2009 03:59 am (UTC)
What do you find face book more of a time drain?
chomiji
Feb. 12th, 2009 11:59 am (UTC)
fbook

I think Facebook gives just enough feedback that I end up hanging around, clicking aimlessly on my friends' walls and profiles, waiting for more. With LJ I know I'm going to have to wait, so I go do other things, and with chat, it's much more like a real conversation.

redbrunja
Feb. 12th, 2009 08:11 pm (UTC)
Re: fbook
I see.
avierra
Feb. 11th, 2009 05:27 am (UTC)
I'm with Redbrunja, I guess I don't get Facebook maybe (it's very possible).
smillaraaq
Feb. 11th, 2009 08:33 pm (UTC)
I'm downright weirded out by stuff like FB and Classmates.com and the like -- but perhaps I am an asocial and paranoid weirdo because for every one person from the pre-internet days I've lost touch with and miss, there are easily a dozen or more that I never wanted to keep in touch with because I really had nothing in common and no interest in socializing with them, and more than a few who were downright unpleasant or borderline stalkery...so why the hell would I want to throw my real name out there on sites designed to make it EASY for people to find me? Ick, no thanks...I'm sure that must have some value for folks who are more sociable or into professional networking, but it's not for me. I'm more likely to break down and join MySpace (even though their cluttered layouts cause me deep aesthetic pain) because that's the best way to keep track of all the semi-obscure musicians and bands that I follow...
chomiji
Feb. 12th, 2009 12:20 pm (UTC)

Well, we've discussed that as shy as I am, I'm still more of a social butterfly - except that's still too bright and fluttery. Maybe a social moth?

(Speaking of which, I guess I'll be running around Katsu with my camera on Saturday.)

It's funny, the first time I ran into one of my old tormentors - it was when the Young Lady started grade school at our old school - I was astonished, because she was really really glad to see me. Not as much as a close friend that you've run into accidentally at an unexpected place, but certainly more than someone you know but don't really interact with at work. I spent a few days brooding over the fact that she seemed to have forgotten making my life hell when we were 9-10 yrs old, but it wasn't that hard to let go. She was a stupid little girl back then, probably with a hard-charging suburban mom at home, running every detail of her life, and it was more than 25 years previously. And now she was someone who had a big smile on her face for me every time we met, and she was working to make our kids' school better (she was a big PTA macher).

Ann Landers (yeah, I know ... ) once said “Hanging onto resentment is letting someone you despise live rent-free in your head.” It does tend to play out that way, for me.

Anyway, I'm not pitching Facebook to anyone. It's helping satisfy my frequent "Gee, I wonder what happened to so-and-so?" moments, but I also get stuck on there, wasting time. It's like social junk food - it fools your appetite for a moment, making you think you're being nourished, but it's all empty calories, so you have to take more - and more - and more.

smillaraaq
Feb. 12th, 2009 07:45 pm (UTC)
Heh, see, my "what happened to so-and-so?" moments are probably vastly more infrequent than yours -- and even when they do crop up, they've mostly been pretty easily satisfied with a few minutes Googling; that's more a matter of idle curiosity and less any sort of desire to reestablish contact.

And for me it's much less about hanging on to resentment -- unlike your schooldays, the popular kids pretty much just ignored me instead of tormenting me, and I *wanted* to be left alone by them so that was just fine. It's more like, for the overwhelming majority of the folks I'd expect to run into this way, we were never really friends in the first place; we went to the same school, or lived in the same neighborhood, or worked at the same company, and we interacted in the obligatory friendly fashion. I didn't *dislike* them, I certainly don't wish them ill in any way, but I didn't like them enough to miss any of them once we were no longer forced to interact due to proximity. And so I don't really see the point in opening myself up to a situation where all these people I don't miss and never particularly wanted to spend time with in the first place are now going to once again be part of my social network and I'm going to be obligated to act like I'm interested in them and think of them as friends instead of acquaintances, when I'm really not interested in them, their lives, or their conversations in the slightest. It feels like going up to the resident long-winded bore in the office and INVITING them to spend your entire lunch hour shoving blurry snapshots of their thumb in your face and chewing your ear off on subjects that put you to sleep. And yes, I know that some of those people who bored me to tears years ago might be more interesting to me now -- but why would I want to gamble like that? There are plenty of people online that I already *know* are interesting and likeable to me, and I already don't have enough time and energy to keep up with them all as it is! Adding another time-suck just on the odd chance that some of those folks might be less tiresome than they were in the past is a lousy gamble for my tastes, and takes away time I'd rather spend with the folks I like and am struggling to keep up with already. YMMV, of course, and clearly does! This is my more extreme introversion coming out; even online, non-face-to-face social interactions can be emotionally draining for me too, especially when they're of that more obligatory-politeness, go-through-the-motions kind instead of things I really want to do.

As for the much smaller handful of folks who have mistreated me -- again that's less about clinging to resentment and more about simple self-defense. When I've gone to a lot of trouble to disengage from someone who's shown somewhat unsettling stalkerish tendencies in the past, it's not about me sitting up night after night seething about them: it's more "good riddance, lesson learned, now let's not give them another edge in". And with those few who have actively hurt or wronged me, again it's less about me seething with resentment or dreaming of revenge, it's more that I firmly believe that some bridges need to stay burnt -- fool me twice, shame on me, etc. Friendship is a privilege, not a right, and if someone has done something sufficiently beyond the pale that I can no longer consider them a friend, I'm not going to change my mind because they come knocking on my virtual front door with honeyed words. And I am damn sure not going to grant them an absolution I do not feel just because they ask for it; it is not my job to assuage someone else's guilty conscience.
smillaraaq
Feb. 12th, 2009 07:53 pm (UTC)
long comment is long, etc.
Again, this isn't about me stewing in bitterness or wanting to "punish" someone by withholding forgiveness or friendship; it's about protecting myself, emotionally, from being pressured and guilted into something I don't agree with. Too many people out there act like forgiveness is *always* an unquestionable good thing and should *always* be granted if it's asked for nicely, and too much pop-therapeutic modern Western culture carps endlessly that healing is impossible without forgiveness. I think this is utter bullshit, and an insidiously damaging message to those who have been abused and brainwashed from all sides with the message that anger is unseemly and always bad (and especially inappropriate for girls/women), and that we are responsible for taking care of our abusers' feelings, even to the detriment of our own. I reject this idea utterly. Andrew Vachss summed it up rather sharply in this interview:

Todd: You've said that true anger and hatred can be effective tools against abuse. Does this go against the current trend towards forgiveness or do you think that forgiveness by itself is faulty?

Vachss: I think forgiveness by itself -- let's face it -- any doctrine which teaches forgiveness is probably written by perpetrators... Let's just be honest about it -- with forgiveness -- that it is an individual choice and that the right belongs to the wronged, not society, but to the person actually wronged. Telling people that you can not heal unless you forgive is a pernicious, destructive lie because so many people say, "I can't forgive what they did to me so I'm doomed. I'll never heal." As if you had the obligation not only to be abused but to forgive the abuser. There's nothing about that dynamic that's psychologically correct. Nothing. In a way, it's supporting -- I'm the therapist and I'm telling you -- "Yeah, look Todd, I did these horrible things to you but you have to forgive them." So who am I advocating for there? Whose side am I on?


Or more eloquently, in this famous essay:

...If you are a victim of emotional abuse, there can be no self-help until you learn to self-reference. That means developing your own standards, deciding for yourself what "goodness" really is. Adopting the abuser's calculated labels—"You're crazy. You're ungrateful. It didn't happen the way you say" —- only continues the cycle.

Adult survivors of emotional child abuse have only two life-choices: learn to self-reference or remain a victim. When your self-concept has been shredded, when you have been deeply injured and made to feel the injury was all your fault, when you look for approval to those who can not or will not provide it—you play the role assigned to you by your abusers.

It's time to stop playing that role, time to write your own script. Victims of emotional abuse carry the cure in their own hearts and souls. Salvation means learning self-respect, earning the respect of others and making that respect the absolutely irreducible minimum requirement for all intimate relationships. For the emotionally abused child, healing does come down to "forgiveness" -— forgiveness of yourself...


Reading that for the first time many years ago was a huge, shattering revelation, and working towards that self-forgiveness is an ongoing struggle for me.
smillaraaq
Feb. 12th, 2009 07:58 pm (UTC)
I have no trouble feeling some degree of compassion and understanding for those who have hurt me not out of deliberate evil or malice aforethought, but out of their own damage or short-sightedness -- for instance, the older I get and the more I think about it, the more sympathy I have for both my dad's having to deal with my mom's crazy side and her not-at-all-hidden-resentment of him after the divorce, while at the same time I can now sympathize even more directly with the horrible stress and isolation she was under, the way love can transmute into hate when betrayed and how horrible it must have been to see any echo of his personality traits coming out in me. But...sympathy still doesn't excuse all the things they did that damaged me, and those are crippling scars that I'm going to be struggling with for the rest of my life. So I can sympathize, but not forgive: I've got too big of a row to hoe in terms of just trying to forgive myself for not doing more to stand up for myself as a child, and trying to keep from falling into those self-abasing patterns again in the future, to worry about forgiving them just to satisfy some Hallmark-Movie-of-the-Week script about how life is supposed to be. Maybe you find anger to be draining, but I *need* it; I need to acknowledge it because of all those years I had to stifle it, because of all those people who tried to make me squelch any expression of it because it made them uncomfortable. I need it to remind me that some things aren't OK, shouldn't be tolerated, should be spoken against and resisted; I need it to spur me into action. Sure, it's not good to let it run out of control and take over your life, but I need it for balance; if I can't let myself feel anger then I'm probably at a point where I've gone so numb that I can't feel joy either. And I have to take care of myself emotionally because nobody else is going to do it for me...

Now, I of course don't agree with Vachss' dismissal of religion: if you're in a religious/cultural tradition that encourages the granting of forgiveness, and you find it spiritually helpful, go for it! But I'm coming from a place where there is no expectation of human forgiveness unless the person who has done wrong makes amends -- just asking isn't enough. So when I'm dealing with people whose hearts and behavior have not changed in any observable way, I feel no obligation whatsoever to make forgiving noises when there has been no restitution, no glimmering of understanding of what they did wrong, and sometimes even no change in the hurtful behavior. For those folks who came from a nominally Christian tradition, I'd suggest they talk to their God instead of bothering me, because granting unearned forgiveness is Jesus' raison d'etre -- but that's a divine prerogative, and I am an unconverted heathen and quite thoroughly mortal, so please leave me out of it.
chomiji
Feb. 13th, 2009 03:28 am (UTC)

>hugs<

>holds you<

I know I'm very fortunate that the only person whom I believe actually did me much damage was my poor messed up mother.

Please, if it sounds like I'm telling you how you should feel about something, never hesitate to let me know so that I can knock it off and apologize. I certainly was not intending to do so this time, and I'm deeply sorry if it came out that way.

smillaraaq
Feb. 13th, 2009 04:34 am (UTC)
Nah, it's OK, you were careful to note that it was something that worked for you -- I just had to go on and on to try to explain why this is such a sensitive spot for me, because I feared if I just said something more terse you'd think it was because I was taking it the wrong way. *hugs* This is just something that cuts really deep for me because the folks who have tended to be most insistent that my anger or sadness were "unhealthy" tended to be the same ones who were doing things that made me chronically angry or sad in the first place, and I think recasting me as sick or delusional made it easier for them to avoid facing any guilt for what they were doing; easier to call me crazy than admit they might possibly be the ones making me that way. (Shades of the latest racefail, eh? People really don't want to confont all the valid reasons POC have for being angry and resentful, so they criticize the messenger for "tone" instead of confronting why this anger makes them so uncomfortable...) I don't think forgiveness is an inherently bad thing, for the right people in the right situation; but it's the person giving forgiveness who has to be the one to decide the time and place, and they are under no obligation to provide it on someone else's schedule or say-so. Even more than the preaching that forgiveness is always necessary, I get really irked by all the people who've come to me acting like they had every right to EXPECT forgiveness or continued friendship after crossing some uncrossable line. That sense of entitlement...just does not work for me.

And all that individual personal history is endlessly exacerbated on the macro political/cultural level, too, by all the racefail stuff where people criticize you for being "too angry" or "too emotional", by all the people out there who tell Indians "what are you griping about, you lost, get over it", on the one hand, and the ineffectual liberal-guilt sorts who seek cookies and absolution...like I have any authority to grant blanket forgiveness, and even if I did, why should I? What good does that guilt do me, or anyone else, unless it serves as a spur to action? Treaties are still being broken, land is still being stolen, Uncle Leonard's still rotting in jail, countless tribes are still fighting against paper genocide that would simply redefine them out "official" existence, the Medals of Honor granted to the butchers of Sand Creek have never been rescinded, policies of coerced removal of children to abusive and assimilationist residential schools, closed adoptions to non-Indian families, and coerced/nonconsensual sterilization were still going on as recently as the last three decades, and I could go on and on -- the Indian Wars NEVER ENDED, not here and not in Canada, and yet people expect us to "be over it" or grant forgiveness as if all the bad stuff ended a hundred years ago? (And it's the same sort of thing in Hawai'i, it's the same sort of thing with the aftereffects of slavery...we're not over the hurt of these things because the hurting hasn't stopped yet. Yet people have the gall to criticize our anger and demand our forgiveness...I say, nobody gets to apologize for stabbing somebody when their knife is still stuck in the victim's bleeding gut.)

This is why I have that Chrystos quote in my profile -- it's truth in advertising.
chomiji
Feb. 16th, 2009 02:33 am (UTC)

> hugs <

I hear you, sister mine.

chomiji
Feb. 12th, 2009 12:05 pm (UTC)

Facebook is like a cocktail party where you keep running into old friends, and you exchange little pleasantries and get each other hors d'oeuvres and cookies, but never have a real conversation.

The thing is, because it's my real name, I'm not going to get into serious stuff or my weirder hobbies. But I'm big into making connections, and there's just enough ofthat to keep me hanging around.

redbrunja
Feb. 12th, 2009 08:14 pm (UTC)
I get why people like facebook, but it just seems a lot less fun than lj to me. For one, you don't have zillions of fun icons to play with, and secondly, no one seems to talk about fandom things.

I admit, though, it's a nice casual way to interact with people you know IRL.
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